[Afpif] Transit vs. peering Focust for Africa by 2021

Michael Kende kende at isoc.org
Tue Aug 18 06:36:34 UTC 2015


Hi Patrick,
Many thanks for the extra details – we obviously hope that you add questions on local content, and that people are interested in that data.
Best,
Michael

From: Patrick Christian <pchristian at telegeography.com<mailto:pchristian at telegeography.com>>
Date: Tuesday, August 18, 2015 at 1:16 AM
To: Michael Kende <kende at isoc.org<mailto:kende at isoc.org>>
Cc: Meoli Kashorda <mkashorda at kenet.or.ke<mailto:mkashorda at kenet.or.ke>>, Michuki Mwangi <mwangi at isoc.org<mailto:mwangi at isoc.org>>, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu<mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>>, Nishal Goburdhan <nishal at controlfreak.co.za<mailto:nishal at controlfreak.co.za>>, "afpif at afpif.org<mailto:afpif at afpif.org>" <afpif at afpif.org<mailto:afpif at afpif.org>>, Kennedy Aseda <kaseda at kenet.or.ke<mailto:kaseda at kenet.or.ke>>, Karen Rose <rose at isoc.org<mailto:rose at isoc.org>>
Subject: Re: [Afpif] Transit vs. peering Focust for Africa by 2021

Hi Michael,

Sorry for the delayed response, I just spoke with my colleague. He was considering adding questions regarding local traffic to our current IP backbone survey, but decided not to because the bulk of our route data comes from big IP backbone providers and adding questions on origin of traffic or trying to define local with Level 3, Cogent, etc  would be too burdensome for the survey and would affect response rate (we do not use network analysis tools to get data, just surveys). However, we put the idea back on the table to add the question to surveys for our broadband ISP contacts that take part in the survey.  I think we would have a better chance of getting data from them.
So to sum up, we do think it is feasible to collect this data from part of our research contacts that take part in the survey. It wasn't part of our current survey, but we are considering adding the question(s) for our next survey... Another question we have is whether our customers are even interested in this type of data (I am, but not sure if they are... have to look into that, too)

Regarding IP transit prices, we have been tracking prices from mostly the primary hubs. Best data from Joburg, Lagos, Ghana, Nairobi, Djibouti City and more sporadic data from secondary hubs like Dar Es Salaam, Dakar, Abidjan... We are just starting to get intra-African pricing, but not very easy to get data consistently so far :(

Please let me know if you have any other questions.

Best, Patrick

On Aug 12, 2015, at 1:26 AM, Michael Kende wrote:

Hi Patrick,
No worries on my end – this is what I had understood that it is not possible with the current data – if you could look into it that would be great.  As for IP transit prices, is it for all countries, most, or just the largest?
Please do let us know what your colleague has to say.
Thanks very much,
Michael

From: Patrick Christian <pchristian at telegeography.com<mailto:pchristian at telegeography.com>>
Date: Wednesday 12 August 2015 03:11
To: Michael Kende <kende at isoc.org<mailto:kende at isoc.org>>
Cc: Meoli Kashorda <mkashorda at kenet.or.ke<mailto:mkashorda at kenet.or.ke>>, Michuki Mwangi <mwangi at isoc.org<mailto:mwangi at isoc.org>>, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu<mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>>, Nishal Goburdhan <nishal at controlfreak.co.za<mailto:nishal at controlfreak.co.za>>, "afpif at afpif.org<mailto:afpif at afpif.org>" <afpif at afpif.org<mailto:afpif at afpif.org>>, Kennedy Aseda <kaseda at kenet.or.ke<mailto:kaseda at kenet.or.ke>>, Karen Rose <rose at isoc.org<mailto:rose at isoc.org>>
Subject: Re: [Afpif] Transit vs. peering Focust for Africa by 2021

Dear Meoli and Michael,

I hope I haven't misled you. The data we collect from IP backbone providers does not contain the origin/destination of traffic. They provide us with the capacity and public IP traffic rate (link utilization) data of their international links. With our current data set and survey instrument I don't think what you ask, Michael,  would be feasible; however, my colleague was looking into this question a couple of months ago. I'd like to speak with him and then get back to you.

And Meoli, regarding pricing, we track transport and IP transit prices but primarily Africa to Europe, we do not have much intra-Africa pricing data unfortunately.

Last, we will be releasing the latest edition of our Global Internet Geography (Internet backbone networks report) in the next week or so. If interested, I can send you a summary of findings.

Patrick

On Aug 11, 2015, at 1:44 AM, Michael Kende wrote:

Hello,
This is a very interesting discussion, and I also believe both that this data is not available, and that it would be very valuable.  Patrick, as you seem to have international traffic between countries in the region and to other regions, what would be needed to get local traffic by country, and do you think it is feasible?  I for one would love to have more information on your current research that you could share.
Thanks
MIchael

From: Meoli Kashorda <mkashorda at kenet.or.ke<mailto:mkashorda at kenet.or.ke>>
Date: Tuesday 11 August 2015 08:10
To: Patrick Christian <pchristian at telegeography.com<mailto:pchristian at telegeography.com>>
Cc: Michuki Mwangi <mwangi at isoc.org<mailto:mwangi at isoc.org>>, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu<mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>>, Nishal Goburdhan <nishal at controlfreak.co.za<mailto:nishal at controlfreak.co.za>>, "afpif at afpif.org<mailto:afpif at afpif.org>" <afpif at afpif.org<mailto:afpif at afpif.org>>, Kennedy Aseda <kaseda at kenet.or.ke<mailto:kaseda at kenet.or.ke>>, Michael Kende <kende at isoc.org<mailto:kende at isoc.org>>, Karen Rose <rose at isoc.org<mailto:rose at isoc.org>>
Subject: Re: [Afpif] Transit vs. peering Focust for Africa by 2021

Dear Patrick,

As you have seen in our discussions, our interest is country you country local traffic compared to global traffic mainly through Europe. We see very low traffic between African countries - traffic follows content!

I would still be interested in country by country international traffic data and maybe IP transit costs in Africa.

By the way, peering is NOT free for us in Africa -  we have to pay for expensive national leased lines to peering nodes! Sometimes that can be more expensive than  peering in Europe!  So the picture is complex - is content that is driving our decisions or cost?

 We do need local Internet traffic research studies.

Meoli






On Aug 11, 2015, at 1:39 AM, Patrick Christian <pchristian at telegeography.com<mailto:pchristian at telegeography.com>> wrote:

Maybe someone has already done a country by country study?

It could be that Telegeography may have some data around this. Patrick ?

Hi Michuki,

Our research is done on a country by country and regional basis but unfortunately not at the granularity that you may be looking for--% of traffic served locally. We focus on international/cross-border capacity and traffic based on network data collected from ISPs/carriers in our annual surveys. We see growth of local traffic in Africa through the increase of intra-regional capacity/traffic (within Africa as a whole) compared to inter-regional growth (Africa to Europe). I've just given away the gist of my presentation for the conference :)  I'm happy to share more details on our research if it helps or interests you.

Best,
Patrick



On Aug 10, 2015, at 7:19 AM, Michuki Mwangi wrote:

[Adding Patrick Christian from Telegeography, Michael Kende and Karen Rose]

On Aug 10, 2015, at 9:11 AM, Meoli Kashorda <mkashorda at kenet.or.ke<mailto:mkashorda at kenet.or.ke>> wrote:

Dear Mark,

Thanks for your very detailed responses. This is excellent preparation for AFPIF 2015.

On the 60% local content, I am the one who misread the note from Michuki (have not read the actual report). It suggests we shall achieve 60% not 80% by 2021.

I have no data to challenge their forecast. But I do have some anecdotal data on Kenya -  global CDNs are saving Kenyan operators about 50% of international circuits capacity! And that Google and Akamai caches are serving about 35-40% of traffic from Kenya. So we have probably achieved 40% local traffic?

Maybe someone has already done a country by country study?

It could be that Telegeography may have some data around this. Patrick ?

We at KENET would appreciate a research grant to conduct EA study - anybody generous?


This is interesting and good to know for a number of reasons. It has not been clear if we could find a organization in the region that is interested in engaging in this type of research work.

IMHO we are lacking on tools and data sources in our region that can be used to progressively monitor the development. The first phase of this work is to ensure that we have the data sources, tools and systems - access to the data in a sustainable long term manner is just as important as the commissioning the studies.

There is work underway coordinated by various organizations to try and implement the tools in the region but this needs more collaboration from network operators in hosting tools. For instance giving away Atlas probes is a start, having them deployed on the network and keeping them on it far more difficult that it should be :(

I would definitely like to hear what Michael and Karen Rose thoughts are on such a study and not limiting it to EA but the entire region if possible.

I wonder why most of us are so quiet - maybe we already have anecdotal data on each country represented in this mailing list? And Michuki could compile it for AFPIF 2015 in two weeks?


If the data is available, we can definitely work on having it put together for AfPIF-2015.

Regards,

Michuki.



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